Hey, I also just wanted to add this (would edit my other comment, but it's been replied to, so I can't) :
If you would have asked this back when season 1 was going on (or right after season 1, which is when I jumped on the wincest train), I probably would have totally gone along w/ it happening for the first time in season 1 or possibly even pre-series. As I watch each episode, even now, a good way into season 4, I could potentially make a case for it happening after/during almost each one, lol (especially during season 3, when so many of the episodes ended w/ the brothers having a nice moment together). But I think that having seen the last 3+ years unfold and having a retrospective view now has made me see it a little differently. Back in season 1, we had no idea that John was going to die, or that SAM was going to die or Dean would sell his soul to bring him back, or any other of the tragic events they've dealt w/ so far in the series. So I think it was just easy to hook them up in fics and our minds at that point cause we *could*, and cause we're all a litle pervy, lol. ;) But I think, looking back over 3+ seasons of events, knowing everything we know now, and seeing all the possible times for them to take that next step, it makes you really think harder about at just what point they were pushed into taking that step and being so intimately connected to each other. I guess I just find it more interesting if it was later on, cause it leaves so much room for the build-up and the tragedy and desperation to get to them so that they HAVE to take that step, to rely completely on one another in every way. I feel that the only way they find peace is w/ each other.
Umm yeah, I really need a life, cause I'm getting WAY too into this, haha!
Oh, and I also wanted to mention that I just saw a new wincest discussion comm called angstybromance, and I thought maybe you'd wanna check it out and maybe even post this poll over there so there can be even more awesome theories and debating going on. :)
You’re welcome for the thinky! I’m just glad to get some discussion going – fanfic is fine, but I want to see the thoughts behind it. I really appreciate everyone’s participation.
You’ve got such a nice orderly mind to think this through this way, I like the way you think. Because, yeah, season one and everyone’s on the wincest train, because it’s easy and fun and that’s what slashers do. It’s almost a habit with fans these days to slash ALL shows regardless of the logic or sensibility of it. It’s almost like we can’t help ourselves. So maybe some fans who decided early on (earlier than me) to slash the boys pre-series enjoy that idea so much, which is fine, that any alternative just doesn’t matter to them. And, truth be told, the pre series is hot, much hotter than it ought to be!
But your ideas here make SO much sense to me. Esp because I’m thinking about all of this and creating a poll because I want to, in my head, lay it out like it was a story. IF and WHEN wincest happened, how would it have gone down? To think about it like this, like a dramatic profile, to imagine the up and down drama, the build up, like you say, now THAT’s a fanfic I’d like to read. I’m all for them hopping into bed, right, but I like a little foreplay. : D
Hee, I think I just have no life, so I've pondered on this quite a bit over the years as the series has been on, lol.
I totally think it's just habit for fans to slash anyone at any time. I mean, take this whole Dean/Castiel explosion that's been happening this season. The characters, in canon, do not really get along that well and definitely don't trust each other or have any romantic chemistry (so far), but yet from the SECOND he was on screen in the premiere, people have been slashing him w/ Dean all over the place. But...it doesn't really make sense given the ACTUAL canon in the show. I'd say Sam/Dean in season 1 definitely made a LOT more sense at the time (and still do to some extent), but like I said, looking back in retrospect and knowing future events and how they impact the brothers makes it appear just a bit differently. Well, to me, anyway. Lol. :)
Yeah, I agree that you form your thoughts on this based on what you'd like to see written as a story. I think the foreplay or buildup is just as fun as the actual porny moments, cause you get to go inside the boys' heads and experience the struggle and the pain and the guilt and the desperation that leads them to that choice. I mean, I love me some PWPs for the hot porn, but the stories that stick out to me and become my favorites and the ones that are really long and drawn out, and you're allowed to go on that emotional rollercoaster w/ the boys and experience what they have to go through to get to that decision, that moment when they risk everything to be together in that way and have it be more than just sex. It's the best kind of romance, cause they really are all each other has, and I find that incredibly beautiful and heartbreaking to read.
I have no life either...but I do really. This is my life! : D
I love fandom and fans, but the whole Dean/Castiel pairing is like watching lemmings off a cliff. Especially in light of the fact that in addition to what you're saying (no chemistry, no affection), we've seen a whopping 10 minutes of Cas and we're already at ep 7 tonight. I asked around; people were desperate to be able to slash someone on this show and couldn't, understandably, get behind the wincest. Desperate, I tell you. So I understand that part.
What's come out in fanfic (I've read a few) is doing some interesting things with, given Cas's threats to Dean, the whole dominance/sumbmission issue, or they posit that Cas is going to have s-e-x with Dean to try to relate to him better, to get Dean to trust him, and the writers seem to forget or don't understand that Dean has sex with relative strangers to have sex and not to get closer to them. I could buy the whole D/C pairing if I felt it was being done realistically - I want motivation and reasonable, within-character actions, but what I've been getting so far is a bunch of "...and Dean saw the angel's cock and it was a beautiful thing..." Can't go there. Still waiting. Not getting it.
Of course you know about the Big Bang stories, which address the very issue of the need/desire for longer, more in depth stories about them getting together, right? Those are pretty wonderful, because the writers are good and they take it all so seriously, just the way I like it. I think you think exactly the way I do about this. I'm too serious for my own good, but I want to watch the process of them falling in love and taking that last step towards wincest. This isn't just slash, with two men are having sex, this is incest, fer crying out loud! I don't care who you are, that's a big step to take if you're going to have a relationship - I want angst and I want agony over the thing. And then I want good porny stuff.
I have a rec list, if I've not already given it to you. On my LJ here, *points to the left side of the page* you'll see links and "Amalthia's Rec List of SPN." Abondanza, baby. (Favorite PWP is Plutogirl10's Into the Woods.)
Hahaha, yes fandom is my life, too! My mom would be so proud that I sit around and talk about gay incestuous sex all day long, LOL!
See, the whole Dean/Castiel thing squicks me in the way that the Sam/Ruby thing does (only it's freaking me out that Sam/Ruby might actually BECOME canon, which is my one and only MAJOR issue w/ this season, cause I do not want my Sammy to become a rapist!). But...Castiel is not HUMAN, and I just don't understand why people think that's hot. I mean, Misha Collins is nice to look at, sure, but I dunno, I guess I don't do slash just for the sake of it, but rather cause I see something between two characters that's actually worth exploring. But I just don't see that between those 2 at all. It's not that kind of relationship between them.
Yes, when I want my super fluffy schmoopy fics, I read J2, cause those boys are just so adorable and sweet that it makes your teeth hurt just looking at them, lol. But when I want buckets of angst and drama (and even action/adventure, if it's a case-plot along w/ the porn), I go right to the wincest, lol. And yes, I do know about Big Bang!! I spent MANY MANY hours this summer locked away in my room reading through some of those. So very good. Though so may of them are AUs, and I generally don't read those as much, so I'm always on the lookout for other really good, longer fics that explore the boys a bit before the porning happens, lol.
And oooh, I'll have to check out that rec list! Thanks! :D
I'm squicked like you are. I can't see Ruby/Sam and I don't think Ruby/Sam will become canon. The statement Padalecki made was just him talking to a reporter, giving them something, anything to make them go away. IMO.
You're welcome for the rec list! That should keep you out of trouble for a while....
Yeah, I really hope Jared was just kinda running his mouth to keep the reporters at bay, cause I'd be very upset if Sam/Ruby became canon.
Lol, well I hope it keeps me busy for a while, cause I seem to keep getting into trouble when I open my mouth in my LJ. Time to jump head-first into a pile of juicy fic, lol.
I'm sure he was, I'm almost positive. Or maybe Kripke told him to say it to stir things up, who knows. : D
Getting into trouble, eh? Well...if you're keen on some dark angst, I'll self pimp myself...click on the big bang link there *points to the left again* and, I'm told, you will need kleenex.
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lovesrain44) wrote2008-10-29 03:02 pm
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If you would have asked this back when season 1 was going on (or right after season 1, which is when I jumped on the wincest train), I probably would have totally gone along w/ it happening for the first time in season 1 or possibly even pre-series. As I watch each episode, even now, a good way into season 4, I could potentially make a case for it happening after/during almost each one, lol (especially during season 3, when so many of the episodes ended w/ the brothers having a nice moment together). But I think that having seen the last 3+ years unfold and having a retrospective view now has made me see it a little differently. Back in season 1, we had no idea that John was going to die, or that SAM was going to die or Dean would sell his soul to bring him back, or any other of the tragic events they've dealt w/ so far in the series. So I think it was just easy to hook them up in fics and our minds at that point cause we *could*, and cause we're all a litle pervy, lol. ;) But I think, looking back over 3+ seasons of events, knowing everything we know now, and seeing all the possible times for them to take that next step, it makes you really think harder about at just what point they were pushed into taking that step and being so intimately connected to each other. I guess I just find it more interesting if it was later on, cause it leaves so much room for the build-up and the tragedy and desperation to get to them so that they HAVE to take that step, to rely completely on one another in every way. I feel that the only way they find peace is w/ each other.
Umm yeah, I really need a life, cause I'm getting WAY too into this, haha!
Oh, and I also wanted to mention that I just saw a new wincest discussion comm called
no subject
You’ve got such a nice orderly mind to think this through this way, I like the way you think. Because, yeah, season one and everyone’s on the wincest train, because it’s easy and fun and that’s what slashers do. It’s almost a habit with fans these days to slash ALL shows regardless of the logic or sensibility of it. It’s almost like we can’t help ourselves. So maybe some fans who decided early on (earlier than me) to slash the boys pre-series enjoy that idea so much, which is fine, that any alternative just doesn’t matter to them. And, truth be told, the pre series is hot, much hotter than it ought to be!
But your ideas here make SO much sense to me. Esp because I’m thinking about all of this and creating a poll because I want to, in my head, lay it out like it was a story. IF and WHEN wincest happened, how would it have gone down? To think about it like this, like a dramatic profile, to imagine the up and down drama, the build up, like you say, now THAT’s a fanfic I’d like to read. I’m all for them hopping into bed, right, but I like a little foreplay. : D
no subject
I totally think it's just habit for fans to slash anyone at any time. I mean, take this whole Dean/Castiel explosion that's been happening this season. The characters, in canon, do not really get along that well and definitely don't trust each other or have any romantic chemistry (so far), but yet from the SECOND he was on screen in the premiere, people have been slashing him w/ Dean all over the place. But...it doesn't really make sense given the ACTUAL canon in the show. I'd say Sam/Dean in season 1 definitely made a LOT more sense at the time (and still do to some extent), but like I said, looking back in retrospect and knowing future events and how they impact the brothers makes it appear just a bit differently. Well, to me, anyway. Lol. :)
Yeah, I agree that you form your thoughts on this based on what you'd like to see written as a story. I think the foreplay or buildup is just as fun as the actual porny moments, cause you get to go inside the boys' heads and experience the struggle and the pain and the guilt and the desperation that leads them to that choice. I mean, I love me some PWPs for the hot porn, but the stories that stick out to me and become my favorites and the ones that are really long and drawn out, and you're allowed to go on that emotional rollercoaster w/ the boys and experience what they have to go through to get to that decision, that moment when they risk everything to be together in that way and have it be more than just sex. It's the best kind of romance, cause they really are all each other has, and I find that incredibly beautiful and heartbreaking to read.
no subject
I love fandom and fans, but the whole Dean/Castiel pairing is like watching lemmings off a cliff. Especially in light of the fact that in addition to what you're saying (no chemistry, no affection), we've seen a whopping 10 minutes of Cas and we're already at ep 7 tonight. I asked around; people were desperate to be able to slash someone on this show and couldn't, understandably, get behind the wincest. Desperate, I tell you. So I understand that part.
What's come out in fanfic (I've read a few) is doing some interesting things with, given Cas's threats to Dean, the whole dominance/sumbmission issue, or they posit that Cas is going to have s-e-x with Dean to try to relate to him better, to get Dean to trust him, and the writers seem to forget or don't understand that Dean has sex with relative strangers to have sex and not to get closer to them. I could buy the whole D/C pairing if I felt it was being done realistically - I want motivation and reasonable, within-character actions, but what I've been getting so far is a bunch of "...and Dean saw the angel's cock and it was a beautiful thing..." Can't go there. Still waiting. Not getting it.
Of course you know about the Big Bang stories, which address the very issue of the need/desire for longer, more in depth stories about them getting together, right? Those are pretty wonderful, because the writers are good and they take it all so seriously, just the way I like it. I think you think exactly the way I do about this. I'm too serious for my own good, but I want to watch the process of them falling in love and taking that last step towards wincest. This isn't just slash, with two men are having sex, this is incest, fer crying out loud! I don't care who you are, that's a big step to take if you're going to have a relationship - I want angst and I want agony over the thing. And then I want good porny stuff.
I have a rec list, if I've not already given it to you. On my LJ here, *points to the left side of the page* you'll see links and "Amalthia's Rec List of SPN." Abondanza, baby. (Favorite PWP is Plutogirl10's Into the Woods.)
no subject
See, the whole Dean/Castiel thing squicks me in the way that the Sam/Ruby thing does (only it's freaking me out that Sam/Ruby might actually BECOME canon, which is my one and only MAJOR issue w/ this season, cause I do not want my Sammy to become a rapist!). But...Castiel is not HUMAN, and I just don't understand why people think that's hot. I mean, Misha Collins is nice to look at, sure, but I dunno, I guess I don't do slash just for the sake of it, but rather cause I see something between two characters that's actually worth exploring. But I just don't see that between those 2 at all. It's not that kind of relationship between them.
Yes, when I want my super fluffy schmoopy fics, I read J2, cause those boys are just so adorable and sweet that it makes your teeth hurt just looking at them, lol. But when I want buckets of angst and drama (and even action/adventure, if it's a case-plot along w/ the porn), I go right to the wincest, lol. And yes, I do know about Big Bang!! I spent MANY MANY hours this summer locked away in my room reading through some of those. So very good. Though so may of them are AUs, and I generally don't read those as much, so I'm always on the lookout for other really good, longer fics that explore the boys a bit before the porning happens, lol.
And oooh, I'll have to check out that rec list! Thanks! :D
no subject
You're welcome for the rec list! That should keep you out of trouble for a while....
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Lol, well I hope it keeps me busy for a while, cause I seem to keep getting into trouble when I open my mouth in my LJ. Time to jump head-first into a pile of juicy fic, lol.
no subject
Getting into trouble, eh? Well...if you're keen on some dark angst, I'll self pimp myself...click on the big bang link there *points to the left again* and, I'm told, you will need kleenex.
no subject