lovesrain44 (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
lovesrain44) wrote2008-10-29 03:02 pm
lovesrain44) wrote2008-10-29 03:02 pm
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Oh please....tell me why? When? How?
I can't vote because there's no box that says 'all of the above.'
Hmmm, see I don't think I can vote in this one at all, cause like I put in my other comments to your first post, I think it happened much later. But of course, this is just my opinion, and clearly, based on your poll results, I'm in the minority. But that's ok. Like you said, there's no right or wrong, just how each individual person interprets things. I guess the main reason I can't see it happening pre-series is that Dean would probably not let it get that far. I take Wincest to mean a lot of things in different contexts, but from your first poll (and the from your explanation just now), I gathered that you meant full-on sex in a way that wasn't just for physical pleasure. I don't think Dean would ever allow that when Sam was so much younger than him and also very confused and still very much fighting the life they lived. Like I said before, I do believe the feelings may have been always there (either realized or repressed), but they would never act on it until later. And the reason I don't really see it happening in season 1 at all is because the boys were still so disconnected from each other. They had to relearn how to be w/ each other and how to rely on and trust each other, and I don't think that there'd be any sex and/or intimacy until later. The journey and anticipation of becoming that intimate is half the fun, ya know. ;) I *could* see it happening in season 2, but I honestly think it would be later than what you think. Mostly just cause Dean was SO distant from Sam and wouldn't even really talk to him about John right after he died. I do agree that John's death was a turning point for them and definitely a catalyst, but I think, if it happened then, it was more just angry sex and wanting to numb the pain than it would've been about the two of them coming together in actual love or intimacy. I think realistically, given the canon of the show, it could happen at any time from mid-season 2 onwards, but like I said before, I'd go for right after season 2 - into season 3, where they've both lost so much and are so desperate and needy for each other that it's inevitable. But again...just my thoughts.
So um...I would most likely go for the last option, except I think it's awesome that you're doing these polls and opening up such interesting debates, so I wouldn't want you to stop! Thanks for making me be somewhat thinky today! :D
So um...I would most likely go for the last option, except I think it's awesome that you're doing these polls and opening up such interesting debates, so I wouldn't want you to stop! Thanks for making me be somewhat thinky today! :D
So my thinking is it happened before Sam went to college. My thoughts on it are based off of Sam's disconnection to the family after he left, and how well Sam and Dean know each other.
I have siblings, we are not anywhere near that close. Sam and Dean connect at a different level. Also it's common for gay/bi/str8 boys to reject their first experimental experiences and try to run away or hide from it. The story defines it as being Sam not wanting to live the life of the hunter, but I think the wincest is what's underlying. And maybe Sam starts opening up more as he begins to accept their secret, and instead of focusing on what happened, sees the friendship potential. . . . ONLY for things to get awkward again when they try to take it back to the sexual. Secrets, lies, and sleeping with demons to flush the naughty naughty thoughts out? I dunno. Just one boys opinion.
I have siblings, we are not anywhere near that close. Sam and Dean connect at a different level. Also it's common for gay/bi/str8 boys to reject their first experimental experiences and try to run away or hide from it. The story defines it as being Sam not wanting to live the life of the hunter, but I think the wincest is what's underlying. And maybe Sam starts opening up more as he begins to accept their secret, and instead of focusing on what happened, sees the friendship potential. . . . ONLY for things to get awkward again when they try to take it back to the sexual. Secrets, lies, and sleeping with demons to flush the naughty naughty thoughts out? I dunno. Just one boys opinion.
I actually would picture it happening during season one, right after the Bugs episode where everybody thinks they are gay and that at one point, Dean calls Sam, Honey and slaps his butt. Then Sam would admit that he liked it and things would unfold from there. Hum, yeah that would make sense right? :P
i just put the last one 'cause it made me giggle. but i think what happened is a lot of accidental 'we never speak of this again' type stuff pre-series, maybe something big before sam left for stanford and then full-out, more than every week kind of stuff started happening sometime late during season one.
dean just gives me a big denial vibe that makes me think that their neediness and love for each other would've made stuff happen pretty early on, but nothing dean would let either of them acknowledge as anything more than a stupid/drunk/etc. mistake.
dean just gives me a big denial vibe that makes me think that their neediness and love for each other would've made stuff happen pretty early on, but nothing dean would let either of them acknowledge as anything more than a stupid/drunk/etc. mistake.
I voted underage again to skew your results and because I'm stubborn like that.
I really like the reasoning of![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
lfg1986 above, it makes perfect sense, but I will turn a blind eye to it because I MUST HAVE MY UNDERAGE WINCEST.
Also, I would like to vote for #4 above, to shoo you off to write, except this part is so much *fun*! Also, now you have links to read, missy. (Assuming there's anything there you haven't seen.) But then after that, yeah, get writing. Chop, chop.
I really like the reasoning of
lfg1986 above, it makes perfect sense, but I will turn a blind eye to it because I MUST HAVE MY UNDERAGE WINCEST. Also, I would like to vote for #4 above, to shoo you off to write, except this part is so much *fun*! Also, now you have links to read, missy. (Assuming there's anything there you haven't seen.) But then after that, yeah, get writing. Chop, chop.
I can totally see this and agree with you, especially about the distance between them in season 1, beginning of season 2. Your argument is well thought-out and reasoned, however I am reading it with my hands over my ears and going "la la la" because I am committed to the idea of underage pre-series. We're picking out china patterns.
Ahaha, well that's ok. I actually like to hear other people's thoughts on when/how they think wincest first happened. I'm really glad these polls were made and people are willing to discuss their theories, cause it's always been a topic I've been intrigued by, I've just never found too many people who want to discuss it w/ me. So these posts/polls have been very fun and informative for me. But I'm glad my theory made sense and that you could see it, that's always cool to hear. :)
And as far as fanfic goes, I'll read practically anything set during any period (well, Sam has to at least be 16 for me to not be squicked), but my own personal fanon is what I said above, lol.
And as far as fanfic goes, I'll read practically anything set during any period (well, Sam has to at least be 16 for me to not be squicked), but my own personal fanon is what I said above, lol.
Yeah, I'm really enjoying this too, to a distracting degree. (Obviously, since I'm writing *volumes* here :P). But yeah, I can definitely see what you're saying and your fanon makes sense.
Unfortunately for me, I just tend to be *annoyed* by anything that doesn't allow for there to be wincest going on. Boys, stop fighting and being distant! Dean, stop banging girls and pushing Sam to do so! Evil things, leave the boys alone, so they can doooooooo it!!!!
Heh. But that's my illness. I've nicknamed it Denial. ;)
Unfortunately for me, I just tend to be *annoyed* by anything that doesn't allow for there to be wincest going on. Boys, stop fighting and being distant! Dean, stop banging girls and pushing Sam to do so! Evil things, leave the boys alone, so they can doooooooo it!!!!
Heh. But that's my illness. I've nicknamed it Denial. ;)
Hahaha, no kidding, my first comment was like novel-length, lol! Clearly I think about this WAY too much, haha! ;)
And I am, too! I've been SO frustrated this season, not w/ the show so much (cause I'm actually LOVING the stories this year), but more w/ the lack of brotherly moments and opportunities to write some awesome wincest! There's been a serious lack of Sam/Dean fics this year cause the canon is fucking up the wincesty vibes. *is annoyed* Lol, clearly we're all insane, but it's so much FUN! :D
And I am, too! I've been SO frustrated this season, not w/ the show so much (cause I'm actually LOVING the stories this year), but more w/ the lack of brotherly moments and opportunities to write some awesome wincest! There's been a serious lack of Sam/Dean fics this year cause the canon is fucking up the wincesty vibes. *is annoyed* Lol, clearly we're all insane, but it's so much FUN! :D
I answered the last poll but didn't make a comment.
Since youdemanded asked for one, I tried to spell out just how I see it in my little world. When that went over 1,000 words I decided not to post it here but write a fic instead.
*glares at you*
Once it's written (hopefully in a day or two), I'll come and post a link to it on my journal.
*stomps away to write fic*
Since you
*glares at you*
Once it's written (hopefully in a day or two), I'll come and post a link to it on my journal.
*stomps away to write fic*
"..canon is fucking up the wincesty vibes." LOLOL
You said it, sister.
Hey, speaking of meta and discussion- did you see this?
http://community.livejournal.com/wincest/2055540.html
You said it, sister.
Hey, speaking of meta and discussion- did you see this?
http://community.livejournal.com/wincest/2055540.html
Hey, I also just wanted to add this (would edit my other comment, but it's been replied to, so I can't) :
If you would have asked this back when season 1 was going on (or right after season 1, which is when I jumped on the wincest train), I probably would have totally gone along w/ it happening for the first time in season 1 or possibly even pre-series. As I watch each episode, even now, a good way into season 4, I could potentially make a case for it happening after/during almost each one, lol (especially during season 3, when so many of the episodes ended w/ the brothers having a nice moment together). But I think that having seen the last 3+ years unfold and having a retrospective view now has made me see it a little differently. Back in season 1, we had no idea that John was going to die, or that SAM was going to die or Dean would sell his soul to bring him back, or any other of the tragic events they've dealt w/ so far in the series. So I think it was just easy to hook them up in fics and our minds at that point cause we *could*, and cause we're all a litle pervy, lol. ;) But I think, looking back over 3+ seasons of events, knowing everything we know now, and seeing all the possible times for them to take that next step, it makes you really think harder about at just what point they were pushed into taking that step and being so intimately connected to each other. I guess I just find it more interesting if it was later on, cause it leaves so much room for the build-up and the tragedy and desperation to get to them so that they HAVE to take that step, to rely completely on one another in every way. I feel that the only way they find peace is w/ each other.
Umm yeah, I really need a life, cause I'm getting WAY too into this, haha!
Oh, and I also wanted to mention that I just saw a new wincest discussion comm called![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-community.gif)
angstybromance, and I thought maybe you'd wanna check it out and maybe even post this poll over there so there can be even more awesome theories and debating going on. :)
If you would have asked this back when season 1 was going on (or right after season 1, which is when I jumped on the wincest train), I probably would have totally gone along w/ it happening for the first time in season 1 or possibly even pre-series. As I watch each episode, even now, a good way into season 4, I could potentially make a case for it happening after/during almost each one, lol (especially during season 3, when so many of the episodes ended w/ the brothers having a nice moment together). But I think that having seen the last 3+ years unfold and having a retrospective view now has made me see it a little differently. Back in season 1, we had no idea that John was going to die, or that SAM was going to die or Dean would sell his soul to bring him back, or any other of the tragic events they've dealt w/ so far in the series. So I think it was just easy to hook them up in fics and our minds at that point cause we *could*, and cause we're all a litle pervy, lol. ;) But I think, looking back over 3+ seasons of events, knowing everything we know now, and seeing all the possible times for them to take that next step, it makes you really think harder about at just what point they were pushed into taking that step and being so intimately connected to each other. I guess I just find it more interesting if it was later on, cause it leaves so much room for the build-up and the tragedy and desperation to get to them so that they HAVE to take that step, to rely completely on one another in every way. I feel that the only way they find peace is w/ each other.
Umm yeah, I really need a life, cause I'm getting WAY too into this, haha!
Oh, and I also wanted to mention that I just saw a new wincest discussion comm called
angstybromance, and I thought maybe you'd wanna check it out and maybe even post this poll over there so there can be even more awesome theories and debating going on. :)Edited 2008-10-30 04:23 (UTC)
Hahaha, yes I did see that! In fact, I just made another comment to this post down below alerting the OP of this so that maybe she can head over there and post this poll/discussion there, too. I'd love to see more theories and discussion on this topic. :)
Agreed, in fact I think I'm gonna write that. =)
OK, I really can't vote on this poll. I stick to my theory that it happened after ELAC, I'm stubborn like that. Also, rosepetal-drenched continuum? Bwahahaha!
I think that the boys had unresolved sexual tension preseries (hence my pre series vote), but they didn't really ACT on it until after John died.
However in my mind, looking at your brother and desperately wanting to kiss him, is still Wincest.
However in my mind, looking at your brother and desperately wanting to kiss him, is still Wincest.
Sorry about that, but I'm trying to pinpoint the moment!
This is a perfect answer, and could explain a lot, because if Sammy was looking and Dean was looking and it was UNREQUITED, then we got some major URST going on, which, then, explodes (heh heh) when John dies. I like this theory. A lot.
Yeah. I was hopped up on caffine when I wrote that....
Thanks to you guys I have a new LJ community! I went over and posted the links to the polls - I'm in the queue for moderation, so I guess we'll soon see if this type of discussion was what they had in mind.
OP?
OP?
Awesome!! I think this is right up their alley for that comm, and I'm sure you'd also have some really good insights into the other discussions they'll probably have there. :D
And OP means original poster, which is you, since you made these posts and the polls. :)
And OP means original poster, which is you, since you made these posts and the polls. :)
If I've got good insights, you guys have even more - I've been wanting for ages to have a good discussion like this. In the past when I started, I got my wrists slapped for daring to suggest wincest. I think I was in the wrong community, um. : D
OP? Ohhh, I have a title now! OP! OP! *head swells...*
OP? Ohhh, I have a title now! OP! OP! *head swells...*
It could totally make sense! I've long liked Bugs for the very Wincesty undertones you mention. It might start as a joke, right? And then it would get more serious from there...
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