I think we’re both in the minority, but it’s nice to know I’ve got friends out here! And yeah, I was thinking that there were different kinds of wincest. If Dean could fool around with Sam underage, it wouldn’t have quite the emotional weight that it would in later years. Kids fool around, they just do. Brothers, I hear, fool around a lot, so, yeah, there would be that. But for the boys to stop and think and decide yes or no to more Wincest is a different kind of act. To participate in Wincest with purpose, knowing full and well how it might look and what it means.
(Just to disagree with you here, I do think that underage Dean would have allowed it, but as he got older he would have allowed it less and less as he grew to understand what they were doing. Which then would have brought discord between the brothers, esp if Sam wanted it to continue. At the very least, they would have had some strife to deal with. I read a brilliant WIP that dealt with this very issue, Dean letting the sex happen, but refusing to take it all the way, I think that might have influenced me.)
But as for it really meaning something? I’m with you. Season 1 was still full of them getting to know each other, trying to fit back into their own roles, one which Sam had almost totally outgrown, that of the little brother. Plus I always got the feeling they had their hands full with that, partly because, from what canon seems to indicate, that they’d never actually been alone on a hunt before that. Certainly Sam was surprised to find out that Dad had let Dean go hunting by himself. Even if they’d had underage sex, at that point, they’re a bit busy and all focused on finding Dad. No time to get emotionally involved – or at least more emotionally involved than they already are and in a way that would lead to grownup Wincest.
Angry sex after John died? I like that! I tend to soften anger and turn it another way, but I can totally see Dean being so angry and turning to take it out on Sam and having THAT turn into something else. Angry sex. With biting and bruises and stuff. Mmmmmmmmmmm.
And you’re welcome for the polls. I have stuff I should be doing, but a co worker brought me a pepsi, so, I’m hopped on caffine again today. : D
I think they probably both had feelings for each other when they were younger, though it's sometimes hard to say if those feelings were ever truly realized and accepted or if they were repressed and just not thought about. But I've also read some FANTASTIC and beautiful pre-series fics (in fact, my all-time fave fic is pre-series, and one that I think you recced in the comments of your first post - To Wish Impossible Things), and in a way, I *could* see it happening where Dean allows it but never lets it get to a point where the intimacy is there. I think it would just be about sex to him at that point (even though I think he'd FEEL differently, but wouldn't let Sam get that involved), and at some point he'd end up breaking it off, which would lead Sam to leave for Stanford. I could see that...as far as reading fics goes. But for my own personal fanon beliefs based on the whole series, I'm sticking w/ my post-season 2/season 3, lol. ;)
Dean was SO broken after John died, and he even admitted to Gordon in Bloodlust that he couldn't talk to Sam about it. I think it was pretty obvious that he turned to anger and brutality in hunting for a while there to deal w/ losing John. I mean, he smashed up his BABY cause he was so frustrated and hurt and angry. So that leads me to think that any sex going on at that point would be angry sex. And...that's probably why I wouldn't want to see their "first time" happen in that time frame, cause I'd want their first sexual experience to not be just a physical thing to erase the pain, but more about *them* and about how they need each other and love each other. But then again, I'm a complete romantic like that, so that may skew my bias a bit, lol.
Just to disagree with you here, I do think that underage Dean would have allowed it, but as he got older he would have allowed it less and less as he grew to understand what they were doing. Which then would have brought discord between the brothers, esp if Sam wanted it to continue. At the very least, they would have had some strife to deal with.
So much WORD to all of this. I had this discussion in the car with my friend the other day, and I came to just about the same conclusion that you did. Especially if they started with just playing doctor and sparring in the backyard and then a sexual relationship grew out of that, I can totally see Dean growing reluctant as he became more and more aware of societal norms and expectations that maybe weren't as influential on them as socially-isolated children. I can also see Sam, stubborn as he is, not understanding why their relationship would have to change, and his anger over feeling rejected by Dean putting "artificial" limits on their relationship would create a totally new distance between them that could even have contributed in a round-about way to his leaving for Stanford.
Doesn't that sound like a story begging to be written? I know there's a couple like this out there, where they're fooling around and Dean puts the kibosh on it. I'm always open to read more, however. : D Although, I'd never thought, until you brought it up, that Dean's putting the kibosh on the sex was one of the reasons that Sam left. I've read a few stories that have Dean allowing the sex to happen to try to get Sam to stay, but I'm sure it could have gone either way...because regardless, Sammy left. I'm positive he cried as the bus pulled out. : (
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lovesrain44) wrote2008-10-29 03:02 pm
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(Just to disagree with you here, I do think that underage Dean would have allowed it, but as he got older he would have allowed it less and less as he grew to understand what they were doing. Which then would have brought discord between the brothers, esp if Sam wanted it to continue. At the very least, they would have had some strife to deal with. I read a brilliant WIP that dealt with this very issue, Dean letting the sex happen, but refusing to take it all the way, I think that might have influenced me.)
But as for it really meaning something? I’m with you. Season 1 was still full of them getting to know each other, trying to fit back into their own roles, one which Sam had almost totally outgrown, that of the little brother. Plus I always got the feeling they had their hands full with that, partly because, from what canon seems to indicate, that they’d never actually been alone on a hunt before that. Certainly Sam was surprised to find out that Dad had let Dean go hunting by himself. Even if they’d had underage sex, at that point, they’re a bit busy and all focused on finding Dad. No time to get emotionally involved – or at least more emotionally involved than they already are and in a way that would lead to grownup Wincest.
Angry sex after John died? I like that! I tend to soften anger and turn it another way, but I can totally see Dean being so angry and turning to take it out on Sam and having THAT turn into something else. Angry sex. With biting and bruises and stuff. Mmmmmmmmmmm.
And you’re welcome for the polls. I have stuff I should be doing, but a co worker brought me a pepsi, so, I’m hopped on caffine again today. : D
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Dean was SO broken after John died, and he even admitted to Gordon in Bloodlust that he couldn't talk to Sam about it. I think it was pretty obvious that he turned to anger and brutality in hunting for a while there to deal w/ losing John. I mean, he smashed up his BABY cause he was so frustrated and hurt and angry. So that leads me to think that any sex going on at that point would be angry sex. And...that's probably why I wouldn't want to see their "first time" happen in that time frame, cause I'd want their first sexual experience to not be just a physical thing to erase the pain, but more about *them* and about how they need each other and love each other. But then again, I'm a complete romantic like that, so that may skew my bias a bit, lol.
no subject
So much WORD to all of this. I had this discussion in the car with my friend the other day, and I came to just about the same conclusion that you did. Especially if they started with just playing doctor and sparring in the backyard and then a sexual relationship grew out of that, I can totally see Dean growing reluctant as he became more and more aware of societal norms and expectations that maybe weren't as influential on them as socially-isolated children. I can also see Sam, stubborn as he is, not understanding why their relationship would have to change, and his anger over feeling rejected by Dean putting "artificial" limits on their relationship would create a totally new distance between them that could even have contributed in a round-about way to his leaving for Stanford.
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Although, I'd never thought, until you brought it up, that Dean's putting the kibosh on the sex was one of the reasons that Sam left. I've read a few stories that have Dean allowing the sex to happen to try to get Sam to stay, but I'm sure it could have gone either way...because regardless, Sammy left. I'm positive he cried as the bus pulled out. : (