Can You Say Wow? I Knew That You Could

[lovesrain44]

This recently got posted at Fandom Secrets, which I check every day because it's so dang fun:



And I can say that I don't know when I have been as flattered as this.

Except for my friend amothea bugging me week in and week out, the stories never got a lot of feedback, so I really thought that the two of us were the only ones who liked them. That they were personal guilty pleasures only, and not....well, just not what people wanted. To find that there was at least one other person out there who also liked them, well.

I assure Anon, not at all pathetic, that I do have more stories in my head for this.

One thing I had to be sure of was to not back out of the contract I had set with myself, that John stayed John, and kept being the tough drill sergeant for the summer from hell. And that Dean and Sam remained true to the themselves in this era, somewhat at odds, not quite getting along. It's turned out to be harder than I had thought, to keep it edgy and mean. But I want to write them, I do. Writing Blue Skies took it out of me a bit, but the stories are most assuredly there. In my head.

Thank you again for the tremendous complement in being sad that there have been no updates in over a year. Over a year? I am sad too, now!

Edit: The stories did get a lot of feedback, and a lot of readers liked the darkness and the grit. I guess I always felt that since this verse was so personal to me that....oh, never mind. I'm not even sure what I'm saying now.  Foolish writer is foolish and should just write what feels good.

 

Comments

[charmedstrange1.livejournal.com]

First off --

YES!!! For god's sake, yes, give the child some otter pops!! LOL Any little bit we can have... (but I'll say more on that later...)

And secondly, Yay!! I made you laugh. :)

NOW, down to business-- it is SO cool to see our different perspectives on John in this too-- it's funny, but the two moments you mentioned weren't even ones I had in mind when I talked about the hints of caring between them-- I was thinking of two different scenes altogether-- well, those and the overall feeling I had gotten from all of them meshed together.

I was thinking of when they finally met again, and how Sam was worried whether John even wanted to see him; it was awkward and arms-length at first, but I read this as both of them *wanting* to greet each other, and being unsure of the other's reaction. Then we finally got the hug between them later in the scene.

The other time was, oddly enough, not between them but from a third person, when the guy who had called for Dean and John (sorry, I'm horrible at remembering which eps have which events) and Sam and Dean went to help, and the guy said 'well, both sons are just as good' and cavalierly mentioned how John had bragged about Sam being at Stanford on a full ride, and Sam had this 'aw, really?' kind of moment.

So, altogether I have this kind of belief that Sam and John really *did* care about each other, and although they obviously weren't afraid to go toe-to-toe over things (all the other slew of scenes of aggression you mention), I think there wasn't any real *permanent* damage of the I-really-hate-you kind, and that their real downfall, between the two of them, was their inability to communicate (because they were so much alike). They lacked the kind of, 'I love you, you asshole', ability that Sam and Dean seem to (depending on the season you consider) naturally have.

Even when John died and Sam felt guilty because his last words were in anger-- even then, John *knew* that Sam's anger was displaced- and John still 'took the heat' and didn't correct Sam's thinking even though he was being wrongly accused of not giving a shit about Dean. This was in a sense (even tho it was in a fucked-up, John way) sort of John being protective of Sam, by not calling him on wrongly accusing John. As it turns out, made things even worse for Sam in the end, but I didn't see that as John's *intent*...

(Alternatively, one could read that as John just not giving a shit enough to correct Sam, and being so focused on 'getting the job done' that he couldn't allow Sam enough information to sway him from that... and damn whatever it does to Sam in the process... but I don't want tooooo :P)

part 2 :P

[charmedstrange1.livejournal.com]

I don't know. *shrugs* The more I learn about people and how we are molded by our experiences, the more I realize people can get completely different things from reading the exact same words or watching the exact same scenes. I just find that I have to believe, for whatever reason, that even though John and Sam weren't speaking and were 'on the outs' at the beginning of the series, there was no deep and scarring damage of the truly abused childhood kind-- I mean, obviously, they had a fucked-up childhood but it wasn't of the Matthew variety, you know? (If that's the right kid..) and even Sam said as much.

And again, it's a question of perspective here and not that I don't LOVE THIS FIC, because I totally do because I'm twisted like that, but for me the picture you've drawn of this summer so far IS of the degree that it's actually emotionally abusive. Yes, Sam was upset at Dean's beating too, because Dean didn't really mean to push Sam through a window and get him cut up; he just meant to push Sam which is a much smaller infraction-- but there was no mediation of that. John's consequences are of the hammer-dropping variety, with no weighting of the evidence, it seems.

I can still see that John has reasons for what he does, but the fact that they're unreasonable actions-- I dunno. It's a matter of degrees, I think. For me, the amount of unreasonableness of imposition of will shown by John here does not equate to the amount of fucked-upness of their later relationship in canon, so I'm not satisfied that this John really gets his just desserts by that alone.

And the fact that you are treading that line, like you said, purposely showing John's intent--

[(and in a VERY clever way, may I say, where it's still through Sam's eyes but he can't see it, even though we can-- AWESOMENESS.) so that all the maltreatment is for John's reasons-- that whole Any weakness now will mean trouble for Sam later... I can't agree with that hard line even knowing why and that's what makes me so ANGRY at this John-- but I buy that he believes it.]

--for me, *that's* what makes this so painful- that we do see John's intention and that keeps this from devolving into simplistic abuse-because-John-is-evil-- because THAT would be easier to just write off and dismiss. DAMN YOU.

ANYWAY. Let me explain more about the otter pops-- and this will probably illustrate more fully where our disconnect may be (as well as my complete and utter fucked-upness where issues like this are concerned).

For (my) Sam, esp. at 12 years old, it's not about *getting* the ice cream and making a decision not to take it- making a point, whether he's old enough to understand it or not. [Which, btw, please, yes, steal away if it pleases you!!] No, no. My twistedness goes further than that. MY fucked up Sam would be so completely over and done with all the bullshit and BROK.EN. to the point that he actually would not get any enjoyment out of the ice cream. He would take it or not, whatever the 'order' of the moment was, but just be at a point beyond which John could affect him any more; and even if this John were too far beyond the pale for *that* to have any impact on him, at least Sam would be (in a sad, fucked-up, unhealthy way) beyond his reach. And yeah, that's not the Sam we see in canon. But it's the one I see this John deserving.

*blinks* Wow. Told you I was fucked up and twisted.

PLEASE NOT TO BE DOING THIS TO OUR SAM. But I know you won't anyway, because you like your Sam strong and too proud for his own good which I know WILL ONLY LEAD TO MORE TROUBLE AND NOOOOOO!!!!! SEEEEE what you do to me?? You are giving me the worst of all possiblities here! Making John abusive but not (necessarily) evil, making Sam right but also a (somewhat spoiled) brat, and making Dean just distant (and non-sympathetic) enough to cause trouble.

WHY?? WHY MUST YOU DO THIS TO ME??? AND HOW QUICKLY CAN YOU GET IT DONE AND POSTED?!?!!??? :P

Re: part 2 :P

[lovesrain44.livejournal.com]

Threads go all the way up to F...and answer what you want to, as it pleases you. : D

[lovesrain44.livejournal.com]

See below....thread A. Live Journal is insisting that I can only use 4300 characters and I'm far too verbose for that....

[lovesrain44.livejournal.com]

And then Thread B and Thread C