Why Did Dean Break After 30 Years and Not Before?

[lovesrain44]

This is in reference to the 4.10 ep, Heaven and Hell, where Dean gives up the goods at the end and tells Sam the reasons why he doesn’t want to talk about hell. We find out the awful truth: that in order to stop the pain, Dean got up off the rack and became a torturer himself.

 

I realized I want to know WTF happened after 30 years that made Dean suddenly change his mind. I mean you don't go through 30 years of torture and then wake up one day and say screw this, do you? (I’m pretty sure Sam feels the same, but he’s being a Good Brother and giving Dean his space. For now, anyway.)

 

Maybe, after 30 years, maybe he hit his breaking point, maybe he got tired of Alistar coming by EVERY single day and just hit his limit.

 

When Dean said, at the end of Wishful Thinking, “…the things I did, the things I saw…” I instantly thought/figured/hoped that there was non-con between Dean and Alistar, because I’m whacked that way, and I kind of thought THAT would be the reason Dean broke. Not that he suddenly gave up one day. Or maybe Hell used Sam in some way, something that Dean thought was Sam.

 

What's most interesting to me is the fact that fanfic never considered that Dean could be broken, that he would make the choice he did as presented in canon. At least not the fanfic I’ve read. (I would be willing to be shown the error of my ways, however.)

I'd love to know what other people think!

Comments

[jdsampson.livejournal.com]

I think he did just break - there has to be a point and this was the point. I've heard others suggest the non-con with Alister because of the way he responds to Dean when he sees him, but I don't think that would break him - I think it could have happened but it would be just another part of the torture, not the reason he gives up.

What's interesting about this is I just started posting a story I started writing years ago called If It's Tuesday, it must be Stockholm.

In it, Sam's been a captive of a serial killer who is one of the special kids himself and in we come to find that Sam reached a point where he became the helper (assistant torturer) in order to save himself. When I wrote it, I wasn't sure anyone would buy a Winchester getting broken so badly that they agree to harm others but it looks like the potential runs in the family!

[serena64.livejournal.com]

I read a fic (but can't find the damn thing now, sorry) where Alistar starts taunting Dean with the fact that Sam has forgotten about him, moved on with his life etc and that is what makes Dean finally give in and stop fighting.

[lovesrain44.livejournal.com]

That sounds about right. I always figured that Alistar would use Sam in some way, some cruel way. If you find that link!

[lovesrain44.livejournal.com]

I've heard about the Stockholm Syndrome, and yeah, at some point, you bond with your captor and figure he's the only thing keeping you alive, that he's right, that he's your world.

There's lots of links about the Stockholm Syndrome on he web; your story sounds fun! If torturing Sam can be considered fun, which I do.

And I understand why people break, I was just wondering if there was some reason Dean broke at 30 years. Why not 32 years? And what was the straw that broke this beautiful camel's back?

[evermcfearless.livejournal.com]

I think that Dean's breaking point could have been when he finally realized that he's not getting out of there.

Although, I do think it could also be that Alastair did use Sam in some way or maybe one of his parents, maybe had a look-a-like or an illusion or something, of Sam torturing him or something. And I wouldn't put the Non-con past him either.

Either way, it broke my heart to see Dean in such pain, and not only the physical pain, but the emotional pain of finally giving up, which we have never seen Dean do willingly.

[lovesrain44.livejournal.com]

Something had to make that point worse than all the others...

it could be like you point out, kind of like when you wait 15 minutes for someone to show up for a date or appointment, and then you give them five minutes more and THAT's it. Then you walk. At the 30 year mark, Dean said, that's it! I'm done. Stick a fork in me.

Something pushed him over the edge!

Something that, now that I'm thinking about it...well, I'm thinking about the motel fight scene. Forget which ep. Sam says something and Dean starts swinging, taking out the lamp and then Sam. I had the feeling that he was thinking it was all for nothing, if Sam was going to go darkside - somehow related to his time in hell, why did I put up with all that suffering if THIS is the result? Why didn't I break at 10 years and maybe saved myself some grief?

But then, if he'd broken at 10 years, he would have been 30 years a torturer, and that would have been worse. For Dean anyway.

[evermcfearless.livejournal.com]

Wait, so you think Dean knew about Sam using his powers and then he just gave up?

[partaymon5.livejournal.com]

I'm not sure that it was EXACTLY 30 years, part of torturing is losing track of time or screwing with it in some way, so Dean may have no idea of how long it was, just what he either thinks or has been told it was. I don't think the exact 30 years is significant, other than one - it makes the torture seem horrible if it has been going on that long (as opposed to the 4 months 'up top') and two - they needed a number to use and 30 was nice and even and that leaves 10 years of guilt for Dean to wallow in.

That aside, I think he just reached the point where he just couldn't do it anymore, he gave up hope of rescue and he just couldn't bear Alistair in his face one more time. If Alistair came to him every day, and asked the same question, that quite possibly might be worse than the torture: to be free, to not have to face something just that one more time. How many times have you gone into work, faced the same thing day in and day out and one day, you call in sick: you're not physically sick, you are just mentally and emotionally tired and just want a break. Of course in Dean's case, things are much much worse, but same principle. He just finally cracked.

[lovesrain44.livejournal.com]

No, he didn't know while in hell that Sam was using his powers. But when he got out of hell and found out, I'm thinking that part of what pissed him off, besides the fact that Sam was using his powers at all, was the fact that Dean's being in hell, having sacrificed all of that, was of no use. There he was in hell, suffering, holding close to his heart that all of the suffering would save Sam. Come to find out it didn't.

Which doesn't answer the question as to why he broke after 30 years. : D

[evermcfearless.livejournal.com]

Oh, okay.
Yeah, now that I really think about it, there must have been something else that happened for him to just give up. I mean, yeah people break, but Dean is strong and I honestly think he could have held out.

Unless Alastair threatened Sam's life or something.

[lovesrain44.livejournal.com]

I figured the 30 years was pretty much a marker point, not an exact one. Rather along the lines of "It rained for 40 years and 40 nights" kind of thing. So the 30 year thing, yeah, 3/4 of the way through, only he didn't know that, did he. HE figured he was going to be down there forever. He didn't KNOW at the 30 year mark (or whenever) that rescue was on the way. I don't even think he figured help was on the way. Unless Sam did something STOOPID to rescue him.

That makes it even more interesting. If he thought hell was forever, and he gave in after the "30" year mark? Oh man. He broke early, if you look at it that way.

I like your idea of the agony of facing the same-o same-o. Some days you just want to run screaming into the streets.

I'd like to see more fallout from him not only cracking (because in his mind the great Dean Winchester never cracks!) but also now having told Sammy.....

[evermcfearless.livejournal.com]

That could be it, but idk...Kripke does like to eff with us. It could be another secret that has yet to be revealed.

Btw, love your icon!

[lovesrain44.livejournal.com]

Something. Yeah, people just crack under time, they break under the strain, they just will. They're human. But something specific had to happen. IMO. Some straw to push it over.

[lovesrain44.livejournal.com]

Yes, kripke does. And again and again and again. And then one more time after that.

He'll keep doing it until we crack.

Hey thanks! My icons are all by my friend Shea_fleur, who is fantastic with the textures.

[amalthia]

I think they had to have changed up something. I still like the idea of rape being the breaking point.

[lovesrain44.livejournal.com]

That's because you're my evil twin!

Yeah, one day, Alistar comes in and asks Dean the question, and then maybe Alistair says..."Well, boy, how bout this for some incentive?"

Heh heh heh.

[aknutzen.livejournal.com]

when i first watched the episode that was actualy the first thing that sprang to my mind, and even my husband and friend agreed with me about that. i could see that breaking dean where nothing else in hell would, seeing as how dean was always the one in control with sex and ya know along those lines.

[lovesrain44.livejournal.com]

Ooooh, I like the way you think!

And what if, to sweeten the pot, Alistair took Sam's form and did the deed? Oh man. That's mean.

[aknutzen.livejournal.com]

lol, yeah that would be great. And kripke is probably as horrable as we r, otherwise we wouldn't have all the little parts in the show that feed our 'active imaginations' lol.

[lovesrain44.livejournal.com]

Too bad we'll never see the likes of this on canon!

[amalthia]

I'm kind of disappointed if that's what did happen it wasn't more spelled out. But I have to remind myself this is not HBO or Oz.

[lovesrain44.livejournal.com]

I'll wager that they didn't really think about why Dean broke at that time, rather than earlier or later.

[amalthia]

that and this is the CW. Edgy isn't exactly their style.

[lovesrain44.livejournal.com]

Exactly.

I guess the answer I'm looking for is, "OH, I know the perfect story! Let me get you the link! It's got non con!"

[lori-leaf.livejournal.com]

Do you have non-USA friends on your flist? If you do you might want to consider putting this under a cut tag due to spoilers. Of course it's your journal, so it's whatever you want.

Personally I don't think Dean nessisarily gave in in exactly 30 years. He probably estimated about thirty years. He said time moved differently. I'm guessing he didn't keep exact track. It FELT like fourty years. He gave up 3/4's of the way through his torture. And yeah, I'm not surprised he eventually broke. What I want to know is if he ever said "no, I can't torture this person." and then was put back on the rack for a few more months until he once again asked to get off...